CBsubs tax report

I am very surprised that turnover in France is based on payments and not on invoices.
That's against international generally accepted accounting principles (GAAP).

Nope that has been the case in France and some other countries for years already
turnover is based on invoicing BUT VAT is based either on invoicing (for goods) or on payments (for services)
See www.cabinet-louargant.com/services/nos-focus/taxes/item/29-tva-sur-les-debits-tva-sur-les-encaissements for an explanation

That's also the general rule for most european countries (VAT paid on payments and not on invoicing)

What you are suggesting here is a fully blown automated accounting system for VAT, which goes way beyond anything I'm aware of in the market (open-source or proprietary).

I am not suggesting an accounting system but only a system based on real uses in France (and other counties also)

Additionally, you still need documents that you can show to your VAT inspectors in case you have an inspection. And those documents are invoices and credit-notes.

The normal way accountants do account for partial payments of full invoices that are issued is by issuing manual credit notes ("Note de crédit") which contain negative VAT (or credited VAT amount corresponding to the unpaid amount). Those credit-notes are "negative invoices".

CBSubs is not a manual invoicing system, and does not support such manual credit notes, which would have to be issued by your accountant separately (e.g. with a text-processing or a spreadsheet).

So what is the point in having the ability to make partial or total refund in baskets/paiements if the system does not issue "credit notes" and is then at the opposite of what is needed for basic accounting needs ?

That's right that we send our invoices to our accounting department with their own software, but if we record a partial or total refund for an invoice we would need the system to keep a track of this refund and issue a new "negative" invoice or credit note and do the tax calculations accordingly.

If not, it only means that all computations done for taxes may be wrong (at least for France) which is not a good point.

If we cannot trust CBsubs for invoices/tax calculations, this defeats the purpose of using an integrated system and enhances the burden of work which is at the contrary of what you aim

Is it complicated to implement credit notes for total/partial refund ? and make a system compliant with french tax rules ?

activha wrote:

I am very surprised that turnover in France is based on payments and not on invoices.
That's against international generally accepted accounting principles (GAAP).

Nope that has been the case in France and some other countries for years already
turnover is based on invoicing BUT VAT is based either on invoicing (for goods) or on payments (for services)
See www.cabinet-louargant.com/services/nos-focus/taxes/item/29-tva-sur-les-debits-tva-sur-les-encaissements for an explanation

That's also the general rule for most european countries (VAT paid on payments and not on invoicing)

What you are suggesting here is a fully blown automated accounting system for VAT, which goes way beyond anything I'm aware of in the market (open-source or proprietary).

I am not suggesting an accounting system but only a system based on real uses in France (and other counties also)

Additionally, you still need documents that you can show to your VAT inspectors in case you have an inspection. And those documents are invoices and credit-notes.

The normal way accountants do account for partial payments of full invoices that are issued is by issuing manual credit notes ("Note de crédit") which contain negative VAT (or credited VAT amount corresponding to the unpaid amount). Those credit-notes are "negative invoices".

CBSubs is not a manual invoicing system, and does not support such manual credit notes, which would have to be issued by your accountant separately (e.g. with a text-processing or a spreadsheet).

So what is the point in having the ability to make partial or total refund in baskets/paiements if the system does not issue "credit notes" and is then at the opposite of what is needed for basic accounting needs ?

That's right that we send our invoices to our accounting department with their own software, but if we record a partial or total refund for an invoice we would need the system to keep a track of this refund and issue a new "negative" invoice or credit note and do the tax calculations accordingly.

If not, it only means that all computations done for taxes may be wrong (at least for France) which is not a good point.

If we cannot trust CBsubs for invoices/tax calculations, this defeats the purpose of using an integrated system and enhances the burden of work which is at the contrary of what you aim

Is it complicated to implement credit notes for total/partial refund ? and make a system compliant with french tax rules ?

First of all, I am very happy that your accountant is agreeing with me here:
www.joomlapolis.com/forum/255-developer-members-support/234284-6117-cbsubs-refund-with-manuel-date-input?start=6#284241

In short, it is not *Payments* that are accounted for VAT, but invoices, and notes of credit that adjust in case of partial payments, if partial payments are accepted (which honestly seems to me like quite exceptional in automated payments).

As you correctly pointed out, CBSubs 4.0 has no manual invoicing feature as it is not an invoicing system, but a membership management solution. Manual Credit notes feature is currently not planed. It is something that we'll keep in mind as a possibility when we redo the invoicing part in next major CBsubs release.

Added it as #6122, potentially related to #3531.

In the mean time, the solution is than to manually generate notes of credit and to enter them separately in your VAT accounting system.

And of course maybe to review the plans or CBSubs "promotions" that you offer to add plans that directly correspond to those customer choices for partial payments. Having invoices corresponding to the payment wish of the customer would solve the problem you are describing at it's roots, and remove all the extra-work hassle due to having to handle an unusual amount of partial payments.