[SOLVED] Using CBSubs not possible in Germany

The use of CBSubs violates the German PAngV (consumer protection regulation)
And I think there are similar regulations in other EU countries.
CBSubs can be used only if at registration prices shown are identical with the gross prices indicated on the invoice.
There are two ways to solve:
So it could be shown at registration already individual gross prices for each country. But this is not possible.
Or for that displayed gross amount must be deducted the individual VAT. This option can not be selected in the settings of the tax rates. Can this be added?

Thank You!

Edit your plans and on the Presentation tab adjust the "Price display of plan (default: [AUTOMATIC])" parameter as needed. For example you can set it to the price of your plan with VAT included. We've plans to try and improve this further with a later release, but it's a bit difficult to calculate tax during registration when CB doesn't know where they're from so the geolocation features can't really work until they're registered.

mctrading wrote: The use of CBSubs violates the German PAngV (consumer protection regulation)
And I think there are similar regulations in other EU countries.
CBSubs can be used only if at registration prices shown are identical with the gross prices indicated on the invoice.

Please avoid such "frontal attacks" , as those are just counter-productive and come in very unfriendly as written. :blink:

I'll now interpret your message in a positive way like a "heads up" message, as I'm sure that you didn't want to attack.

That CBSubs can't allow to comply to your German price display regulations is (fortunately) simply not true. : CBSubs, if used properly, does not violate German laws. See below.

There are two ways to solve:
So it could be shown at registration already individual gross prices for each country. But this is not possible.
Or for that displayed gross amount must be deducted the individual VAT. This option can not be selected in the settings of the tax rates. Can this be added?

Thank You!

I believe you missed a third way, already implemented:

You can override the displayed price in each plan, and put there the price with VAT and any other locally legally required indications. It is the 5th parameter of plan presentation (first tab): "Price display of plan (default: [AUTOMATIC])".

We are looking into better/easier ways for displaying this going in the direction of those you proposed (thanks).

VAT calculations and regulations worldwide are not as simple as just Germany, and CBSubs has been implemented to allow to allow flexible enough VAT calculations for use worldwide. Regulations change often, and we try to keep up.

thank you for your answer Kyle!

if i change the price display from [Automatic] to an other value then this is only changing the price displayed before the registration - right?
it will not change something in the invoice?
the problem is that i had to show for each eu-country an own price in registration and then also an different price for B2B costumers

the price has to be shown with the right individual VAT before the user is beginning the registration - so if you will create the function to calculate tax during registration then this would not help to avoid the problem with the lawyers

the lawyers know that there is only one solution:

showing the cross price which is the same for each costumer and then the individual VAT must be deducted

this would be the easiest way to solve this problem and i think you can insert this without any problems into the existing tax plugin as an option for the tax rates

Hello Beat,

sorry if my writing sounds unfriendly !!!
my english is not so good and so i try writing with simple words - i think this sounds unfriendly
sorry! but i only try to show an problem and an solution for you that would be very easy

i also thought about the solution to change from [AUTOMATIC] to an other value.
but:
knowing the individual cross price - before starting the registration and before we know the geo location of the costumer should be not possible right?

mctrading wrote: thank you for your answer Kyle!

if i change the price display from [Automatic] to an other value then this is only changing the price displayed before the registration - right?
it will not change something in the invoice?

Correct, at registration and at upgrade times, but not in basket or invoice, it's really easy to try and see.

the problem is that i had to show for each eu-country an own price in registration and then also an different price for B2B costumers

That is not possible before knowing where the customer comes from and if he is a consumer or a business. That EU regulation is not implementable as is, and from what I have read, EU and e.g. UK VAT office are aware of that.

the price has to be shown with the right individual VAT before the user is beginning the registration - so if you will create the function to calculate tax during registration then this would not help to avoid the problem with the lawyers

That is not possible as the user is not known at that time, and EU has already been made aware of that by the #EUVAT group.

the lawyers know that there is only one solution:

showing the cross price which is the same for each costumer and then the individual VAT must be deducted

It is sure a solution. But I don't think that this is the only solution.

Plus it puts the VAT burden/risk at your cost, unless you raise your prices to take in account the highest 27% VAT, or the average.

this would be the easiest way to solve this problem and i think you can insert this without any problems into the existing tax plugin as an option for the tax rates

Please don't suppose that implementation is as easy as it looks, and that all countries' sales and other taxes are same as German VAT.

Some countries have multi-level sales-taxes (e.g. Canada) or taxes with fixed offsets (like fixed recycling taxes), or taxes thresholds (e.g. goods import taxes). CBSubs's Taxes calculations engine is really really complex, and taxes calculations are not necessarily bijective (e.g. with threshholds).

That said, you have a solution that Kyle and me have proposed, which complies with German laws, and also as much as possible with EU regulations, provided that you put a disclaimer somewhere that your prices are with German VAT included, and that individual differing EU countries VAT will be computed at checkout. EU VAT regulations are somewhat contradictory, and certainly do not impose the seller to take the hit for different VAT rates. That said, add "place of enjoyment" #EUVAT2015 regulations for telecom providers, and they have no other choices to take the hit (and raise their prices to reflect that hit on the customer).

It's a complex subject, and I'm already working on improving it.